Episode 39 - Thriving with ADHD while Running Your Business with Amanda Perry

🐚Topics covered:

• Who is Amanda + why did she create her business?
• Amanda’s journey with ADHD and diagnosis
• How ADHD shows up in women show up and how it is different compared to men
• How is running a business with adhd different for neurodivergent folks compared to neurotypical folks? 
• What Amanda would say to anyone who suspects they have ADHD
• Learn from Amanda what to do when you have ADHD and run a business
  
  
  

About Amanda
Following an ADHD diagnosis in 2020, I set about redesigning my business and my life to work with my brain… not against it. For me, that looked like selling my digital marketing agency - with millions in revenue - to create a flexible business model that worked for me.

I now work with ADHD founders, visionaries and leaders who are serious about creating a brain-first business which allows them to achieve their version of success, while still having the energy left to enjoy their life.

Where to find Amanda

Website: www.amandaperry.co.uk 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/amandaperry/ 

More about Iris

💬Come say ‘Hi’ on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/cycleseeds/

🎓Check out our offerings https://www.cycleseeds.com/ 

Transcript

[00:00:00] Iris Josephina: Hey friends, this is probably one of the most soothing episodes that I have ever recorded in my life. I sat down with Amanda Perry and Amanda, following an ADHD diagnosis in 2020, set about redesigning their entire business and life to work with their brain, not against it. For her, that looks like selling their digital marketing agency with millions in revenue to create a flexible business model that really worked for her.

[00:00:37] Iris Josephina: She now works with ADHD founders, visionaries, and leaders who are serious about creating a brain first business, which allows them to achieve their version of success while still having the energy left to enjoy their life. So Instagram and Everything that she posts on her page really rings so much truth to me.

[00:01:01] Iris Josephina: I found her shortly after I received my own ADHD diagnosis, and everything that she posts just felt like deep homecoming and recognition, and I often cry when I see her posts. Because I'm just like, Oh my God, I feel so seen after so many years of my life, not feeling seen. And we really have like a heart to heart vulnerable conversation here and we really talk about What are, you know, ADHD journeys have been like, what our diagnoses have been like.

[00:01:38] Iris Josephina: And we also dive a little bit deeper into how does ADHD actually show up in women and how is it different compared to men? We also dive into what it is like to run a business when you have ADHD and how that is different for neuro diverse folks compared to neurotypical folks. And. It has been such a nourishing time to just record this podcast with her and just, you know, get really real about our own experiences.

[00:02:12] Iris Josephina: We also hadn't planned to go into this, but we ended up talking about this quite a lot, which is rejection sensitivity, which is really high in people with ADHD, and we just ended up having a real heart to heart about this. So, If you don't have ADHD, this is really an episode to, you know, start learning to understand us.

[00:02:37] Iris Josephina: And if you do have ADHD, I really hope this episode is like a homecoming to you. And if you're still on the journey, if you're still not sure, if you're waiting for diagnosis, I really hope that this episode, you know, helps you land in yourself and helps you understand that you're not crazy. You're really not.

[00:02:59] Iris Josephina: And I really hope that you know that you can always reach out to me. Amanda is really approachable, too. I highly recommend to follow her Instagram. And enjoy listening this episode. And please feel free, if you have any questions, reach out to me. Reach out to Amanda. And we're here. And I really hope that this is like a soothing balm for your soul.

[00:03:22] Iris Josephina: Enjoy listening.

[00:03:28] Iris Josephina: You're listening to the podcast of Iris Josefina. If you're passionate about exploring the menstrual cycle, cyclical living, body wisdom, personal growth, spirituality, and running a business in alignment with your natural cycles, you're in the right place. I'm Iris. I'm an entrepreneur. Functional hormone specialist, trainer, and coach, and I'm on a mission to share insights, fun facts, and inspiration I discover along the way as I run my business and walk my own path on earth.

[00:03:59] Iris Josephina: Here, you'll hear my personal stories. guest interviews and vulnerable shares from clients and students. Most people know me from Instagram, where you can find me under at cycle seeds, or they have been a coaching client or student in one of my courses. I'm so grateful you're here. Let's dive into today's episode.

[00:04:21] Iris Josephina: Hello everyone. Welcome to a new episode podcast. Today, I'm here with Amanda Perry, and we are going to be talking about ADHD and ADHD in business. And as many of you probably have heard on my podcast, I've been diagnosed with ADHD earlier this year. And Finding Amanda's account where she is talking about business and ADHD was such an eye opener for me because I have studied with many people who do not have ADHD and learned business from them and it didn't make sense to me very often.

[00:05:02] Iris Josephina: So I'm really happy for all the things that you're doing and I really want to warmly welcome you to the show, Amanda. 

[00:05:09] Amanda Perry: Oh, thank you so much. What an introduction. Thank you, Iris. 

[00:05:13] Iris Josephina: You're welcome. So before we dive into ADHD and business, like what, what's your story personally with ADHD and, and how did you eventually decide that ADHD and business was what you wanted to focus on?

[00:05:28] Amanda Perry: Yeah, so I did a Accelerator program here in the UK about maybe even like 10 years ago, maybe, yeah, probably 10 years ago, nine or 10 years ago. And someone that I met on that program started talking to me about how she'd just got a diagnosis of ADHD. And I, I think I probably laughed at the time. And the conversation developed and she said the reason I'm telling you is because actually I think you might have it and you seem worse than me.

[00:06:01] Amanda Perry: Um, and I, I kind of dismissed it. I just thought that's crazy. I don't think I even really believed ADHD was a thing for anyone at that point. But it certainly wasn't in any adult conversations I'd ever heard. Fast forward, I don't know, maybe five years and Someone in my family started talking about it, and they'd recognised traits in themselves and started sharing.

[00:06:27] Amanda Perry: I think, you know, this is probably everyone's journey, started sharing a few memes and a few things off Instagram. And this was in, like, 2019, probably? 2018, 2019. And the more she started sharing with me, and again, it later turned out she was sharing it because she recognised it in me as well, the more I was like, oh, maybe there is something here, you know, this is too accurate, and I think anyone with ADHD knows that feeling of maybe this is the answer to the question, you know, that question that we've had our whole lives bearing in mind, by the time I got diagnosed, I was 42.

[00:07:06] Amanda Perry: So, you know, it's a long time to be asking yourself those questions. So yeah, diagnosis in 2020, at the time I had a digital marketing agency, which was, you know, we'd grown to kind of 40 members of staff. We'd had really significant growth during the pandemic. And following my diagnosis, I just really, the more I understood about ADHD, the more I realized.

[00:07:31] Amanda Perry: I'd built a prison rather than a business. And, you know, looking around and seeing, I was in this fixed location. I had to be in the office. My calendar was open to everyone. I was in this, you know, open plan office, which was complete overstimulation every day. I was subject to just. bombardment of RSD at any given moment, you know, in terms of client communications and team communications.

[00:07:58] Amanda Perry: And so, yeah, I went about really, really trying to understand what would work for me, what doesn't work for me and how I can get out of the current situation and rebuild my life in a way that does work for my brain. Everything you're saying 

[00:08:15] Iris Josephina: is so relatable. It really, really is. And you know, maybe we should circle back a little bit and for those listening and don't really know what ADHD is.

[00:08:30] Iris Josephina: Because I know there's a lot of confusion about that these days. I've had a lot of people tell me, like, when I actually had my official, like, diagnosis that people said, Well, oh, well, well, everybody has ADHD these days. That's not really true. So maybe we can speak, or you can speak a little bit to, like, briefly, like, what is ADHD?

[00:08:54] Amanda Perry: Sure. Yeah. I mean, the, yeah, there is so much misconception isn't there and, um, so much awareness online, which is amazing for those who do want to be educated or are seeking a diagnosis. There's this very random stats out there that 75 percent of adults with ADHD haven't been diagnosed, like don't even know that they have it.

[00:09:17] Amanda Perry: Which when you think of the huge amount of people who have been diagnosed recently is, you know, that's a really significant number. But ADHD is, it's often labelled, incorrectly labelled as a mental health disorder, mental health condition. It's a neurodevelopmental condition which literally means that our brain's wired to those who are, air quote, neurotypical.

[00:09:42] Amanda Perry: You know, neurodiversity is like biodiversity, like everyone has different brains, but the facts are that as medical science develops, and they, they see these clumps of symptoms, and they create these models and give them a name. A terrible name, I might add, ADHD is like the most inaccurate name, I'm, I'm not short of attention, I have no deficit in attention, and it's certainly not a disorder, but yeah, it's a neurodevelopmental condition which essentially means that we share a collective group of traits which are largely, depending on whether you're inattentive or hyperactive, are largely around ourselves.

[00:10:24] Amanda Perry: focus, executive function, um, some things around social skills and sensitivities and that kind of thing. So yeah, that's it in a nutshell. Thank you for clarifying 

[00:10:35] Iris Josephina: that and allowing people to understand what it is. Yeah, it's important, isn't it? It's important. It's important to be able to give words to what is happening.

[00:10:47] Iris Josephina: And I totally agree with you that medical, um, Jargon around it can be very confusing because as you say, we don't have a disorder. No. We don't have a deficit of attention. Yeah, I don't feel that way. No. And. I think that's why it's important to also mention that and speak to that and ask people with ADHD to, like, come to a collective understanding of what it means to us.

[00:11:15] Iris Josephina: And also, like you said, there is a lot of diversity within the, uh, like set of symptoms that can come with ADHD. Absolutely. 

[00:11:24] Amanda Perry: Yeah. And that's why you see people, you know, within the neurodivergent ADHD community fighting amongst themselves over, well, that's not ADHD or that's not my ADHD or that, I don't experience that, you know, once you've, once, if you've met one person with ADHD, you've literally met one person with ADHD because We all experience a unique set and unique filter of the ADHD symptoms.

[00:11:53] Amanda Perry: You know, we, we each experience that through our own lens, don't we? So yeah, it can cause for some interesting conversations online, I think, where it can sometimes be hard to get the nuance of the conversation across. 

[00:12:07] Iris Josephina: Yeah. I'm completely with you on that one. And when it comes to running a business, like you mentioned earlier, how it was for you to run your business in the environment that you described, like, I was literally like cringing when you were describing the details of what you had to go through on a daily basis when it comes to sensory stimulation and having zero control over your calendar, like, It gives me like goosebumps, but not in a good way.

[00:12:39] Iris Josephina: And, um, like I said, I have done like, quote unquote, neurotypical business coaching trajectories. And I would always feel like, Oh my God, why can't I be like all these people? Like, why can't I follow through with all the steps that we have to go through? Why is it so hard for me? Why are all these other people like moving forward with their businesses?

[00:13:01] Iris Josephina: And I'm not. And I'm curious how you look at that and how you would look at like, quote unquote, neurotypical business coaching trajectories, and why. They potentially really don't work for people with ADHD. 

[00:13:16] Amanda Perry: Yeah, sure. So I talk a lot about building your brain first business. So for me, when I decided I had to exit my agency and, you know, dealt with that and then started looking at what was next for me, it was really about starting from, you know, what do I need right now?

[00:13:33] Amanda Perry: What is my version of success right now? What does success look like to me? Because I'd been in that very kind of hustle energy of. You know, it looks like how many people are on my team and how much money we're making, how many clients we've got, how many awards we're winning. And I really had to decondition myself from that to understand what my version of success is right now in this kind of season of my life.

[00:13:59] Amanda Perry: And money's important to me. You know, I like to live a comfortable lifestyle and money is important, but it doesn't have to be the focus. I think. With neurotypical coaches or with neurotypical business models, which is the business models that we work to, it's kind of, you know, looking at how much money do you want to make?

[00:14:21] Amanda Perry: All of the things I mentioned, how much money do you want to make? Or what does the exit look like? You know, what does the org chart look like? And all of these very hard binary KPIs. And actually when we're building businesses as neurodivergent founders, we really need to look at, I say the softer stuff with, you know, air quotes, because it's the stuff that really matters.

[00:14:45] Amanda Perry: It's like, uh, lifestyle requirements. What are they both in terms of. Family commitments or how our energy flows, you know, how much energy we have at what time in the day that, that can really help us shape the business. What our key values are, what our strengths are, what our personal strengths are away from ADHD.

[00:15:07] Amanda Perry: You know, what are the things that we're really, really good at? can easily find flow with. And then what are our goals? But I think when we look at our goals, we have to really challenge ourselves on if they are actually our, our goals, you know, or if they're goals that we've, we've kind of picked up along the way from Instagram or LinkedIn or whatever books we've read or podcasts we've listened to, because those goals very definitely belong with someone else, you know, if we're not really honest about our goals.

[00:15:38] Amanda Perry: It's unlikely that we'll ever achieve them. And so I think that's the difference. This conversation is very nuanced because there's ADHD coaches who are going to help you with your ADHD symptoms and lifestyle stuff. Then there's business coaches who are going to help you with your business and they're going to help you grow your business and look at how much money do you want to make and how are we going to do it and how can you work harder and how can we be more productive, you know, looking at this.

[00:16:05] Amanda Perry: Productivity myth, like really, really focusing on that. What I do is business coaching through the lens of ADHD. So an understanding of the ADHD brain and how it works in general, but then also really considering how your unique ADHD brain works and then how we're going to achieve your personal version of success while considering all of that other stuff.

[00:16:32] Amanda Perry: So, Allowing you to make the money, hit the goals, do whatever, whatever it is you want to do in your business while still having enough energy to enjoy your life, which I think is rare in entrepreneurship. I think a lot of us with ADHD just end up in burnout very, very quickly. 

[00:16:51] Iris Josephina: I can see that. And I feel that one of the things I'm hearing from friends who have ADHD, but I also see in myself.

[00:17:00] Iris Josephina: that it seems that it is always never ending. Like with my neurotypical friends, they can really say like, okay, at the end of the day, like I have done all my things that I need to be doing. And I constantly have the feeling I'm like running behind my to do list. 

[00:17:15] Amanda Perry: Yeah. 

[00:17:15] Iris Josephina: And I think that's a common thing that people with ADHD experience.

[00:17:19] Iris Josephina: Yeah. And that's why I, I love that you said that this whole productivity idea is like a myth. Because if as someone with ADHD, if you focus on how productive you are, you're going to be constantly disappointed. Definitely. At least it's like that for me. And I've seen it. spoken to friends who run businesses, like if that is your thing that you leverage your business on, like how productive you've been and how much you've done.

[00:17:46] Iris Josephina: If I do that, I'm constantly disappointed. So it's definitely not something that I focus on. And that's why I love that you said that it's about more like the journey. Um, not so much like the end goal, like, we are taught to focus on. 

[00:18:03] Amanda Perry: Yeah. Productivity is such a myth. I think there's a real thing with ADHD where, because we're not great at planning and we'll kind of, you know, raw dog through the day, we'll just get through, we'll, we'll have a bit of a list here, something in our notes app, something pops into our head that we need to do.

[00:18:21] Amanda Perry: So we generally have quite a scattered approach to work, unless we're very, very disciplined about it. So it's really easy to get to the end of the day and feel like you haven't done anything at all. 

[00:18:31] Iris Josephina: Yeah. 

[00:18:32] Amanda Perry: But you've been busy all day. It's just that you don't have a kind of a list in front of you that you've ticked everything off.

[00:18:39] Amanda Perry: It's just that you've been jumping from task to task. You've got a load done, but you finish the day feeling like you've done nothing. And yeah, as you say, Iris, then it's really hard to feel. Like you can wrap the day up, you feel like you just need to need to continue working. 

[00:18:55] Iris Josephina: Yeah, how I have done that for myself and maybe that inspires people who are listening.

[00:19:01] Iris Josephina: What I do at the end of the day is listing all the things that I've done, from big to small, so I can see black and white, like, wow, you actually did a lot of things, and you can be proud of all the things that you did, and you did more than you maybe thought that you did. And for me, it gives me like a peaceful feeling in the evening.

[00:19:20] Iris Josephina: And it makes me feel less bad because in the past, I would just feel like, oh, all my to do things like have to like migrate to the next day and it's even a bigger pile because there was already a pile on that day. So then writing it down at the end of the day and reflecting on like, oh, these are actually all the things that you were able to do.

[00:19:43] Iris Josephina: Even when you like felt bad or had the feeling you did nothing like this is the proof black on white that you actually did things that you can rest assure that that was enough for today. 

[00:19:55] Amanda Perry: Yeah, it's so true. Yeah, anything like that, anything that works, I think people think, you know, it has to be this elaborate system or some productivity app or something like that.

[00:20:06] Amanda Perry: I, I use a program called Accuflow, which is nice because Well, it prompts you in the morning to set your day up and then at the end of the day it prompts you to, like, close the day down, which is really nice and that gives you, you know, an overview of everything that you've achieved in the day. So, yeah, there's various ways of doing it, but I think it's really important to do that.

[00:20:29] Iris Josephina: Yeah, for sure. And. We've already spoken about this briefly, but I want to dive a little bit deeper into it. Like according to you and what you see in your work, but also what you've seen when you were quote unquote, working in a more neurotypical way, like you described earlier, what is different for people with ADHD running a business compared to air quote, neurotypical entrepreneurs?

[00:20:54] Amanda Perry: I think it's, um, I mean, there's so many things aren't there. We're so ambitious, generally, this is very generally speaking. I know everyone experiences it differently, but we have the tendency to be very ambitious to be, you know, extremely hyper focused. I think it's very, it can be very difficult. For teams to keep up.

[00:21:17] Amanda Perry: Someone emailed me this morning about working together. He said, I feel like a cat with a cat with a laser beam stuck to my head. And I just thought that was the best description of how he said, not only am I confused, like my focus is like this laser beam, he said, but my team don't know what they should be focusing on day to day.

[00:21:39] Amanda Perry: And, you know, I think that's really, really accurate. It's really hard for a team to keep up with. An ADHD founder who, you know, listens to a podcast and then wants to change the whole business or has stayed up all night hyper focusing on this plan and then, you know, everyone's focus has to suddenly switch to this plan.

[00:21:57] Amanda Perry: And I can really relate to that in my agency. I was, although I didn't know it at the time, I didn't recognize it in myself. I can really see that that was, you know, how I ran the business, which is really difficult for the team. But also with, uh, you know, there's, there's a really great book that I love called Rocket Fuel, which is about the visionary and integrator partnership and how every successful business needs this partnership.

[00:22:24] Amanda Perry: And the visionary certainly displays ADHD tendencies, even if they're not diagnosed, but, you know, they're this big picture thinker, they're the dreamer, they come up with the ideas, with the vision, and then this integrator role, which is the person, the, the ops person, essentially, that makes that happen.

[00:22:42] Amanda Perry: And I think it's really, really important to not just look at all the ways that we're, oh, I can't be focused and I can't do this. You know, we need the integrators, but they also really, really need us. Like we are the people that will dream up the ideas that no one else would dream up. You know, the Steve Jobs, the Richard Bransons, we're the people that are gonna ultimately change the world.

[00:23:06] Amanda Perry: We just need the right people with us to make that happen. So I think we need to change this narrative around, you know, focusing on the things that we're not good at. And we really need to start appreciating the things that we are good at. 

[00:23:20] Iris Josephina: I love how you say that, because when you say that, it also makes me think when we live that way, when we work that way, we actually honor our biology and what our bodies can actually handle, which then also prevents us from burning out because burning out is basically crossing your boundaries continuously on every single level possible.

[00:23:40] Iris Josephina: So I love that you said that. And it also made me think about. An hyper focus day that I had, where I was reading about the evolutionary purpose of ADHD because there has been incredibly a lot of research about how ADHD has existed for many years and how it probably has like an evolutionary perspective and root because our ancestors needed people like us to ensure like visions for survival.

[00:24:12] Iris Josephina: And in that sense, I really want to like debunk the myth that ADHD is something like from this century because it's really not true. 

[00:24:21] Amanda Perry: Oh, no. Yeah. 

[00:24:23] Iris Josephina: It has existed for thousands of years. And it's not something that developed because we look too much at screens. And it's really what you say, like, specific brain structures have a purpose in the human community.

[00:24:40] Iris Josephina: And you get, you gave the example of like in a business, we need different types of people performing different tasks. And I can really relate to the visionary character, a visionary quality of somebody with ADHD, because I am that person. 

[00:24:58] Amanda Perry: Yeah. 

[00:24:58] Iris Josephina: Like 100%. And I love that you invite, also in your work, people with ADHD to see it in that way, because I think a lot of us, especially after diagnosis, and especially how society looks at ADHD, you're still like, kind of like put in a box, and you're not Honored for your talents and your character and mm-hmm.

[00:25:23] Iris Josephina: Your, like the characteristics that come with A DHD. Mm-hmm. I actually had a friend and she was, you know, applying for this job in this company. And out of transparency, she mentioned in her job interview that she has a DHD and it was actually something that they discriminated her for. 

[00:25:44] Amanda Perry: Mm. 

[00:25:44] Iris Josephina: And I'm like, wow.

[00:25:47] Amanda Perry: It's really tough. 

[00:25:48] Iris Josephina: Yeah, it is and it really makes me think like, you know, how can we ensure that people also start to see that ADHD has a purpose in human society and the moving forward of human society, whether it is community work, whether it is a business, whether it is a family. So I really, like, want to, like, plant those seeds because it's so important.

[00:26:14] Amanda Perry: It is really important. I think that there is, there's this sense of, I mean, I was diagnosed three years ago. And when I was diagnosed, it took me a year to start talking about it online because people weren't talking about it. I felt very much that I wanted to come to terms with the diagnosis. You know, now you'll see people go in.

[00:26:36] Amanda Perry: I got diagnosed with ADHD this morning. It's like things have developed so quickly in just a few years. I didn't know anyone else that had been diagnosed when I got my diagnosis. It was a very, it was still, you know, not really been spoken about online. And that was just three years ago. If we think of it in the context of, you know, it was only in 2020 that we had the whole Black Lives Matter thing, and how long have we been aware that racism is bad and is something that, you know, we shouldn't believe in?

[00:27:10] Amanda Perry: Like, These things take time to solidify in the human consciousness, don't they? Whether we're aware of it and whether we're the kind of person who, you know, sees the video on TikTok and understands about them, there's still this element of things take time. I'm not saying that That's right. Obviously, no one should be discriminated against, but I do also think, perhaps controversially, that it is our place as employers, as leaders, as, you know, it's why I do the work that I do and why I work with businesses to help inform them about, not even neuro inclusivity, that comes into it, but it's informing them about ADHD, informing them about the strengths, about the weaknesses, because another element of danger there is if we just go into these businesses going, Oh, ADHD, people can do this, this and this, then we're vulnerable to kind of being, you know, manipulated and exploited in the workplace, because, oh, well, I've heard you can get 10 hours of work done, you know, or like a week's worth of work done in half a day.

[00:28:20] Amanda Perry: And, you know, then we end up in a bad place as well. So, I think it's really about, you know, us all doing our bit in terms of education and also in terms of, you know, someone messaged me yesterday and said, I've got an appraisal at work. Should I tell them I've got ADHD? And I said, I mean, obviously I can't advise you that just off of Instagram message, but if they're supportive and understanding, tell them.

[00:28:46] Amanda Perry: And if they're not, find another job. You know, we shouldn't put up with that kind of behavior. So I do think it's a time thing. We need to give it time. But you know, the, the narrative in the media at the moment really doesn't help, does it? 

[00:29:00] Iris Josephina: No, it doesn't. Thank you for offering that perspective as well. I hadn't thought of how Maybe eventually it could lead to that point where people with ADHD could be exploited because of our strengths.

[00:29:15] Iris Josephina: And it is true that we can get, you know, a week's worth of work done in like a full day. Like, that's true. I've done that. Yeah. Thank you for offering that perspective. And sure. Yeah. For helping us become aware that that is also something that we should take into consideration. And What would you like to say to people who are maybe listening to us now or have been thinking about it that they perhaps maybe have ADHD?

[00:29:48] Iris Josephina: How would you tell them to like move forward? 

[00:29:51] Amanda Perry: Yeah, I think that's a really good question. There are loads of different options and loads of different filters to put that option through, those options through. I think it's a, you know, a massive flow chart of decisions and personal situations. I mean, if you are keen on getting a diagnosis, then I'm in the UK, so I can only speak for the UK, but we have a between three and seven year waiting list, depending on where you are in the country.

[00:30:26] Amanda Perry: You have the option to go private, where you're looking at around, around 1, 000, 800 to 1, 000, I think, by the time you take everything into consideration. Which obviously just isn't accessible to everyone. There is an option in the UK called Right to Choose, which I believe, means that you can select a doctor in another area to pursue a diagnosis.

[00:30:49] Amanda Perry: The issue that we often come across or that I often hear about anecdotally is, you know, we're just not great at kind of jumping through these hoops, are we? So, People will often take the shortcut, which is a private diagnosis, which costs. But yeah, I believe that there is the, the right to choose is a really good system, which is worth looking into if the wait list is high in your area.

[00:31:12] Amanda Perry: Personally, I would only ever recommend An official diagnosis if you are really keen on trying medication. I know some people just want that validation because if they're surrounded by people telling them that everyone's a little bit ADHD or, you know, it's just, uh, it doesn't exist, it's just fashionable, then, you know, I can understand people wanting that diagnosis.

[00:31:37] Amanda Perry: I think that there is so much information out there now. There's so many pockets of support and communities and, you know, people with common interests who also have ADHD. So I think that there's so many ways to get support that isn't about medical support if medication isn't the route you want to go down.

[00:31:58] Amanda Perry: I know a lot of people who talk about, you know, going down the kind of holistic well being side of things, which is, you know, breathwork, meditation, exercise, and that can be really, really helpful. But yeah, it's so dependent on circumstance, isn't it? And how people are able to move forward and what they want from that diagnosis.

[00:32:21] Iris Josephina: Yeah, exactly. I can only speak to my experience in the Netherlands because I got my diagnosis in the Netherlands. And what I love about the Netherlands is that, okay, yes, you have to be like on a waiting list. I was on a waiting list for about eight months, which is short compared to the numbers that you just mentioned.

[00:32:40] Amanda Perry: Yeah. 

[00:32:40] Iris Josephina: And, um, There is also the option to go private and it's about the same price. I think it's about 1000 euros to go through that same trajectory. But what I do love about the system in the Netherlands is that I have a therapist assigned and on top of my therapist, I have a coach and they have a program that they offer.

[00:33:03] Iris Josephina: They do group programs. To learn about what is ADHD and they have like this 11 class trajectory where you go into things like planning where you go into things like relationships, personal care. So it's a very broad thing and because you're diagnosed through the system, my insurance pays everything. Oh, fantastic.

[00:33:25] Iris Josephina: I don't pay a cent for that. So that is one thing that if there's people listening and you are in the Netherlands, it is really worth the wait. Yeah. That's great. Yeah, I have received so much wisdom from that and I have unlimited sessions of therapy for as long as I want. That's fantastic. And I was also invited to bring my partner to a therapy session so that my therapist could also explain to him.

[00:33:49] Iris Josephina: Wow. Okay, what is ADHD? How does that play up in your relationship? What are the things that you can do? How are the things like organized in your house? How can you help each other? How can you help Iris? So I really. feel that I'm so lucky and so blessed to have this. And I didn't know at first because I was very hesitant.

[00:34:10] Iris Josephina: I was like, Oh my God, then I have to diagnosis and I need to like do medication. And my therapist was like, no, we start with all of this. And then when you feel, when you have learned, uh, about medication and you feel that that is something that you want to do, then we refer you to our psychiatrist and then you discuss with them which medication would fit you.

[00:34:31] Iris Josephina: And I did not expect it to be this way, but I'm really grateful that our system works in that way. 

[00:34:38] Amanda Perry: Yeah, that's brilliant. There's something in the UK called Access to Work, which is a grant that you can access for business or employment. And that has been really, really helpful for people. I work with quite a lot of people who access that grant and that's for ADHD coaching and it covers some equipment and stuff.

[00:34:59] Amanda Perry: So there is an element of that support here, but it's definitely not as joined up as the one you're describing in the Netherlands. 

[00:35:07] Iris Josephina: And for people listening in other areas, like go look, go see what is going on. And if you know people with ADHD, speak to them, the trajectories that they've gone through and how they've gotten their diagnosis, because it's very place specific, I feel.

[00:35:22] Amanda Perry: Yeah, it is. I think the, the common theme generally is that, you know, as a group of people, we've been extraordinarily let down and, you know, neglected Yeah. And underdiagnosed and under supported. And that in the UK is certainly true and continues. You know, we've got this medication shortage at the moment, which is just, oh, we're, we're out of stock.

[00:35:49] Amanda Perry: Sorry. you know, and that's it. And thousands, hundreds of thousands of people just been left hanging, you know, without this medication that in some cases has really changed or saved their lives, which is a concerning place to be. And, you know, there is this kind of collective eye roll when you talk about it, which isn't helped by some of the news articles that you see.

[00:36:12] Amanda Perry: So yeah, it's something you really do have to advocate for yourself with, I think, and really push through, which again isn't always our strong point, is it? That perseverance. Yeah, that's 

[00:36:25] Iris Josephina: very true. But also it's so worth it because we deserve the support. Yeah, 100%. And I feel that a lot of people with ADHD, especially like us, we are diagnosed at a later age and we lived our entire lives in heaviness in certain ways.

[00:36:42] Iris Josephina: So yeah, if you're listening and you feel that you may have ADHD, know that you deserve support, like really 100%. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And to close off, is there any piece of wisdom you'd like to share with our listeners? 

[00:37:00] Amanda Perry: Um, I think that my message for people is just really, I just want to give people a really big permission slip to do things their way.

[00:37:10] Amanda Perry: I think that I personally feel that my superpower with ADHD is not to, you know, Let it hold me back with anything really. And that's not to say that I don't have any downsides to it at all. I do. I can really, really easily fall into burnout. I'm incredibly susceptible to RSD. I'm incredibly sensitive. You know, there's a lot of things that I really have to mitigate for, but I guess by understanding what they are, they're not the areas of my life that I pushed through the.

[00:37:44] Amanda Perry: The areas that I push through the things I'm good at, the things that light me up, that keep me in flow, that keep me energized and happy and, you know, help me head towards my personal goals. So, yeah, I think it's just, I just really want to empower people to know what their strengths are and also their weaknesses and to mitigate for the weaknesses.

[00:38:06] Amanda Perry: So using the example of I mean, the agency, I could have just continued in that business, but it was, there was so many areas that triggered my weaknesses or triggered my symptoms that it just wasn't an option for me. So, you know, it wasn't an easy decision. It wasn't an easy process, but by going through that process, I now end up on the other end where my life and my business is built around my strengths.

[00:38:31] Amanda Perry: And my weaknesses are, are managed really, really well through different systems and things that I've built, but yeah, that would be my message to people just to empower yourself by understanding your strengths, understanding your weaknesses and building systems to support both of them. 

[00:38:50] Iris Josephina: That's really beautiful.

[00:38:52] Iris Josephina: for sharing that. And I just want to give a little side note for people who don't know what RSD is. You mentioned that. RSD. stands for rejection sensitivity dysphoria. That's right. Yep. Yeah. It, it is when people experience like intense emotional experience or pain because of a failure or feeling rejected, which is a common trait in people with ADHD.

[00:39:17] Iris Josephina: I have experienced that. I've experienced it massively throughout my life, but I wanted to like, bring that in because maybe people don't know what that means. 

[00:39:25] Amanda Perry: Yeah. I think there's just something to add onto that as well, which a lot of people miss off, which is that it's, it's through rejection or perceived rejection.

[00:39:34] Amanda Perry: And I think that really comes into play in businesses where people are holding themselves back and they haven't quite made the connection between that and RSD. And it's often not because of the rejection, it's because of the perceived rejection or the thing, the rejection that they're anticipating happening, which usually never happens.

[00:39:54] Amanda Perry: So it can be a really, really huge issue in business and more than people understand it can be a really underlying factor in why people, you know, never hit their goals and never make their version of success. 

[00:40:08] Iris Josephina: Yeah. Thank you for adding that. And if I speak for myself, I have definitely experienced that.

[00:40:14] Iris Josephina: And it's what you said, it's the anticipation of potential failure for me. It's not even that people tell me I can't do something or That I think I can't do something. It's really the, the anticipation of potential failure or the anticipation of being perceived as a failure when I put something out in the world or that people will catch me on something that I.

[00:40:42] Iris Josephina: missed, for example. 

[00:40:43] Amanda Perry: Yeah, and that's, I mean, the classic one is stopping people posting on social media, isn't it? Or putting, putting content out there because, you know, it hits on two things. So the fear of being perceived, which is a very real symptom or trait of ADHD, and then also the rejection sensitivity, the anti, the perceived rejection.

[00:41:03] Amanda Perry: So, Yeah, it can be really tough, but I think it's hard for people who don't experience it to understand just how it feels. And I think I'm so glad that the word dysphoria is added to it, because for me, it's such a perfect description of how it feels. It just feels good. So completely disorienting and can very quickly lead me into a period of burnout, which is never nice.

[00:41:30] Amanda Perry: But I think once you know those triggers, it's something that you can manage much better. 

[00:41:36] Iris Josephina: Yeah, and that's why the support with that is so crucial and having people understand when you're going through it, whether it's your therapist or your partner, like having people understand, maybe not be able to completely relate, but to have like empathy for it and empathy for your experience.

[00:41:55] Amanda Perry: Mm hmm. 

[00:41:56] Iris Josephina: It's so important and it takes away the pressure of it immediately. 

[00:41:59] Amanda Perry: Yeah, definitely. Yeah, 

[00:42:02] Iris Josephina: thank you that we could like briefly speak about that because I feel it's important especially in relation to business. Yeah, I agree and Then lastly, could you share with us where people can find you?

[00:42:14] Iris Josephina: Because if they got inspired by listening to you, I would love for them to be able to find you and your work. 

[00:42:21] Amanda Perry: Yeah, absolutely. So on Instagram, I am at Amanda Perry and I'm on LinkedIn as well, if anyone's on there, Amanda Perry UK. Um, yeah, come and find me on either of those. 

[00:42:33] Iris Josephina: Amazing. And are there any current offerings that you have open at this moment?

[00:42:39] Amanda Perry: Uh, I've got my coaching offers, which are all on my website, amandaperry. co. uk. So I've got a couple of intensives and a coaching package on there. And we've got the free ADHD founder community on Facebook as well. If you just search founder brain, come and join us in there. And, um, yeah, we all just chat about ADHD, about our challenges and support each other in, in there, which is nice.

[00:43:05] Iris Josephina: That's beautiful. I appreciate you so much for taking the time to come on here to speak. Not at all. Thank you for asking me. Yeah, you're so welcome. And I will add all of your links to the show notes so that people can find you easily. Fab. Thank you so much, Amanda. 

[00:43:25] Amanda Perry: Thanks, Iris. That was brilliant.

[00:43:30] Iris Josephina: Okay, this wraps up today's episode. Thank you so much for listening. Want to know more about me? The best way to reach me is via at cycle seeds on Instagram. And if you heard something today and you think, Oh my God, wow, I learned something new, feel free to share the podcast on your social media and tag me, or leave a review of rating in this way, you help me reach more people like you.

[00:43:54] Iris Josephina: Thank you so much.